Comments on: Microsoft Holds Chip Makers’ Feet To The Fire With Homegrown CPU And AI Chips https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/11/15/microsoft-holds-chip-makers-feet-to-the-fire-with-homegrown-cpu-and-ai-chips/ In-depth coverage of high-end computing at large enterprises, supercomputing centers, hyperscale data centers, and public clouds. Wed, 17 Jan 2024 16:34:34 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.5 By: Thomas Hoberg https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/11/15/microsoft-holds-chip-makers-feet-to-the-fire-with-homegrown-cpu-and-ai-chips/#comment-216640 Wed, 22 Nov 2023 12:24:33 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=143259#comment-216640 Precisely the reason why my AMD machine was always called “AMDahl”.. while there was only one. “Gene” came next and then I stuck to A* and I* names. With ARM I guess I’d have to use B* (for the BBC micro), but so far they are unicorns. Nothing R* yet, unfortunately.

The cost/speed to service advantages seem hard to beat for custom SoC vs. commodity when you are in an expansion phase.

Once that peters out, you’ll want to commoditize again, which is what OCI is all about.

Doing the balance will be tough and making sure you really fully depreciate all that stuff before it becomes obsolete, even more so.

Can’t say that I wish M$ good luck, because I want them miles away from any of my data: Copilot, just say no-op!

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By: Thomas Hoberg https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/11/15/microsoft-holds-chip-makers-feet-to-the-fire-with-homegrown-cpu-and-ai-chips/#comment-216638 Wed, 22 Nov 2023 12:08:40 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=143259#comment-216638 In reply to John S.

As with most things IT, there is no single correct choice, because *it depends*.

When you have a green field out there to fill, why go for density if it costs more?

In other places where latencies are really critical, specialized IT service providers will optimize density in a manner that just wouldn’t be competitive in the green field.

As usual, you’ll see diverse architecture, oddly enough enabled by the huge scale of the workloads.

When it comes to connectors and standard placement: unfortunately physics play a role there and with everything copper, trace lengths become critical. There is a lot of cables these days on Gen5 PCIe servers, because running equal length traces on planar mainboards becomes either impossible or too expensive as you add layers. So going for cables rather than slots and connectors may just be dictated by a combination of physics and economy, even if these high precision cables are neither cheap to make nor to deploy.

How that will work out with optical interconnects remains to be seen, but again cables may win, unless the assembly cost become to excessive… where something more robot friendly may emerge.

I guess the main drivers will be a) cheapest assembly cost for the performance, b) near zero maintenance cost, c) disassembly is “for the next guy”

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By: John S https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/11/15/microsoft-holds-chip-makers-feet-to-the-fire-with-homegrown-cpu-and-ai-chips/#comment-216406 Fri, 17 Nov 2023 14:51:35 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=143259#comment-216406 Microsoft is so into cloud these days, these custom CPU’s probably will end up as specific purpose CPU’s for something Microsoft is cooking up.. It would not be something like Apple did with its M series silicon. The Surface lineup won’t benefit from custom ARM chips and not even sure the investment in Surface is top priority at Microsoft any more. Qualcomm’s Snapdragon X reads like a real option for those who want max battery life and still get good performance. Intel has yet to prove its hybrid approach really makes any real difference. I think maybe on mobile but seems odd in a desktop scenario.

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By: luis river https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/11/15/microsoft-holds-chip-makers-feet-to-the-fire-with-homegrown-cpu-and-ai-chips/#comment-216389 Fri, 17 Nov 2023 05:05:21 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=143259#comment-216389 I think the few resources to favour hegemony for gigant microsoft co., there is duet ARM-WINDOWS and their asociate programs suite, I think Apple had arrived late for big presence on heavy enterprise soft, S. Jobs (rip), dont fall in this error if he live. Otherwise DEll, HEWLETT PACKARD, SUPERMICRO and other makers big digital infrastucture, to love MSFT if this last company only make tuned CPUs ARM for only general sale, dont for make Microsoft their complete server line product new business. Important!!!

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By: Joe B https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/11/15/microsoft-holds-chip-makers-feet-to-the-fire-with-homegrown-cpu-and-ai-chips/#comment-216383 Fri, 17 Nov 2023 02:10:21 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=143259#comment-216383 Copilot for Microsoft 365 is Microsoft’s AI assistant for Microsoft Office and other Microsoft Apps. There are 350 million Microsoft 365 subscribers. I can’t predict how many of them will sign up for Copilot ($30/month), but each 20% that does is $25 billion per year of revenue. Microsoft’s Maia 100 AI chip is going to be doing inference for those subscribers, as it already does for GitHub Copilot. Given Microsoft’s track record for security and privacy, I am amazed people are willing to have essentially every keystroke they make sent to Microsoft’s servers. Perhaps the telemetry added to Windows was done to get people used to the idea that George Orwell’s Big Brother should be able to see everything they type.

AI in the cloud will always be more powerful than what is possible on a client device. On the other hand, as client devices get more AI hardware and AI algorithms improve, client devices might become good enough for most purposes. Will the AI assistants most people use will stay in the cloud or will they eventually run on client devices? The computer industry has gone through several transitions between centralization and decentralization. I would like to know if AI in the cloud is going to remain the dominant way of implementing AI assistants or is it just a temporary thing (less than 5 years) until client devices become more capable and AI algorithms improve.

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By: mike https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/11/15/microsoft-holds-chip-makers-feet-to-the-fire-with-homegrown-cpu-and-ai-chips/#comment-216371 Thu, 16 Nov 2023 20:09:58 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=143259#comment-216371 In reply to John S.

Datacenters already do this. HP blades, SAN arrays, ect.

The only people who implement this way are end user customers paying others to do the work for them.

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By: Timothy Prickett Morgan https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/11/15/microsoft-holds-chip-makers-feet-to-the-fire-with-homegrown-cpu-and-ai-chips/#comment-216367 Thu, 16 Nov 2023 18:25:27 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=143259#comment-216367 In reply to John S.

It is peculiar, isn’t it? I have been to Quincy, so cheap space is not a problem. Microsoft could buy 10,000 acres easily.

I think these companies think of racks and rows like we think of servers. Once they roll them in and wired them up, they really don’t want to touch them again unless they have to. But maybe they are leaving space for future capacity. In the past, this was done at the datacenter room level within the datacenter within the region. But maybe there is a reason why you want to fill all the rooms halfway now because of AI loading. But as you say, these are just Arm server CPUs, nothing crazy hot.

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By: Timothy Prickett Morgan https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/11/15/microsoft-holds-chip-makers-feet-to-the-fire-with-homegrown-cpu-and-ai-chips/#comment-216366 Thu, 16 Nov 2023 18:21:04 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=143259#comment-216366 In reply to UK.

Thanks for the catch, and the morale boost. Appreciate you.

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By: John S https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/11/15/microsoft-holds-chip-makers-feet-to-the-fire-with-homegrown-cpu-and-ai-chips/#comment-216365 Thu, 16 Nov 2023 17:46:02 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=143259#comment-216365 I find it interesting that even Microsoft can’t get rack utilization above 50% with those ARM systems on a per-rack basis. Is it power or cooling limited? Or have the just not deployed enough that they want to fill the rest of the racks yet?

The next big change in DC architecture will be when someone defines a way to get rid of all the fibre and other cables by having standard rack designs with plugs in the back for the network/power/ILO support all in one connector in a standard placement.

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By: UK https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/11/15/microsoft-holds-chip-makers-feet-to-the-fire-with-homegrown-cpu-and-ai-chips/#comment-216351 Thu, 16 Nov 2023 10:47:33 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=143259#comment-216351 Small typo: “AWS and Google as well as others in he Super 8 who are making their own chips for precisely the same reason.”->should be “in the Super 8” I think.
->but that’s not the reason, why I write you Mr. Morgan. I want to tell how you always deliver some fresh and open views, as here with the real reasons for the chip-development at Microsoft. Always well written, a pleasure to read, but always no “hey look, how good I can write” as other writers, which write as they like to hear themselves.
Thanks always for the small side stories, like the one with the coffee cup with Amdahl on it.

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